OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying? I get that your children are your priority - but surely they shouldn't be the priority of everyone else on that call? Is the work at hand not the priority?
My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my clients are also quite prone to tantrums. Combining the two seems like a recipe for disaster!
On my "geographically spread" team, I have no issue with a team memeber having their kid in their lap while discussing the intricacies of postgres. Perhaps, part of this empathy is driven by having a 3 year old myself. I can totally imagine myself in the same situation if I had to join a meeting before daycare opens (or if I want to drop off my kid a little later, for whatever reason).
Compared to my kid, all else is secondary. I realize that I may not always have the freedom to work with a kid-friendly employer, but it will be an overriding criteria in terms of my workplace/career choices. I'll happily negotiate on other terms, but my time and priority for my kid. And if an employer does not agree, it's their loss, not mine.
My two year old is super chill and rarely makes a sound. If he does, I give him a clicky pen and he's set for another 5-10 minutes. If I open a cartoon on Youtube (muted), it buys me another 5-10 minutes.
I get your concern but it's a non-issue here.
Edit: Thinking more about this.. If my team was deeply offended by this, I don't want to work there. My boys are important to me and if they're not willing to accept that, I'd rather find a new job than raise f-d up boys that don't feel loved.
Just FYI, you might have coworkers that aren't all that interested in conversing with your children during conference calls. I know it makes me uncomfortable to have a forced interaction with a coworkers child. I doubt anyone would be deeply offended by it, but do keep in mind that not everyone is as comfortable with your kid as you are. If you have a team that embraces it, that's great - just don't assume everyone always is.
There's a big difference between waving at a coworker's kid for a second during a video conference (why would this make you uncomfortable?) and someone actually bringing a child to the workplace (which OP didn't do, and would actually be disruptive).
Yep, if it just stays at that it's fine. I find with the types that are likely to turn on their webcam for their kid, there's often more that follows as interested colleagues egg on conversation. That's fine, it doesn't bother me until there's an expectation that I participate in this conversation, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be as controllable (kid sees me on video or my screenshare or whatever and starts asking questions).
No, it's not that big of a deal, it's just something I'm not interested in interacting with, and if you're the guy who always has to introduce his kids at the beginning of conference calls, I'm probably going to generally avoid you unless I absolutely need you for something.
I'm sure if I had a kid I'd feel entirely different, but I don't. I also try not to involve my lifestyle choices on conference calls, so I really feel this doesn't go both ways.
You are distracted every five to ten minutes. If everyone on your team did this, nothing would get done. You are being extremely selfish and very inconsiderate of other people's time.
You would be annoyed if you had to answer an email or phone call when you were trying to hang out with your kids. The rest of us are annoyed with the constant interruptions.
It is extremely selfish and others are too polite to tell you to knock it off. If everyone acted like OP, nothing would get done because there would always be a kid, cat, dog, whatever stealing focus. I need to get my work done so I can go home.
"If I disagree with this one thing which wasn't apparent from any glassdoor review, recruiter, interview, unique set of benefits and perks, or compensation package, then I don't want to work there"
- Says person with desirable skills in a hot job market who never changed jobs since graduating college
The reality of many people who work from home is that this is the case anyway - the children are around and make some noise, because they live. Making this transparent and show who the kid is I think makes it actually easier for the other people in the call to feel empathy.
If that is unprofessional, then so is working from home, I guess.
I agree they make some noise, but having them in your lap during a conference call is over the line imo. If you have kids in the house then you need an office with a door. I've worked from home for 3 years now with 2 kids aged 0-5 and they understand that when the door is closed, Dad is at work and they don't come in.
In my experience, no, kids that young do not understand that. Furthermore, if you have the door closed for the length of a conference call with a child that young, I'd expect there to be another adult (or responsible elder sibling) there in the first place, such that the burden of not bothering you was never on the child.
If that can't be arranged, you reschedule the call.
If you have 2 children 0-5 with you all day, and no other responsible adult around, you are not working from home. You are getting some work done while you watch your kids.
Sorry, I thought it would be obvious that there was another adult looking after the kids. It's not really possible to work from home and look after kids at the same time obviously. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether they understand/can follow simple instructions. It's never been a problem with my kids.
That is reassuring then. Not convinced their ability to follow simple instructions should even be a factor, though. Kids at that age lack the judgement to know when some rules should be broken.
> having them in your lap during a conference call is over the line imo.
You do understand that sometimes the alternative to the kid sitting quietly in their parent's lap is the kid screaming their head off on the other side of the home office door, right?
Personally, I'll take the kid sitting in the parent's lap as being the lesser by far of two annoyances, thanks.
"screaming their head off on the other side of the home office door"
Whoever is looking after the child should not be allowing them to sit outside the office door and scream! If you're home alone with a kid, you shouldn't be taking conference calls (except under emergency situations e.g. sick kid + critical call).
> If you're home alone with a kid, you shouldn't be taking conference calls
Right, so only people in two-caregiver households get to work from home. Got it.
Everybody up and down this thread who is assuming that there even is another caregiver needs to check their privilege.
I am not a parent myself, but I have been on conference calls where a colleague tried to keep a child out of their home office for a few minutes (like, for the part of the call when it was their turn to give an update) and it blew up in their face. Just let the kid sit in your lap already, it's fine.
Sorry but I don't believe you can look after your kid all day and work from home at the same time. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of practicality. If you have a full time job, you need childcare whether you work in your home or out of it. I don't think that's particularly controversial.
edit: If it lends any weight to my opinion, I guess I could also point out I work from home and that that despite your assumption I've been the only parent for two children <= 5 years old for the last 9 weeks.
I guess I'm not sure what your argument is then. Yes childcare can be tough to find and it can be very expensive depending on where you live, but if you're saying its okay to hold a full time remote job and care for your child at the same time, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I dont' think that would be fair to your child or your employer.
I am not saying it is "okay", I am saying that sometimes there is no other option. Life happens, people cope the best they can, and sometime the reasonable compromise is going to be to let the kid sit on their parent's lap for the duration of a conference call.
I think you misunderstand. There is obviously another caregiver looking after them. I can't have a 24 hour open door policy with my kids while I'm working from home, just the same as anyone who works in an office.
Then it is perfectly reasonable to have a closed door for calls. However, even in that case, I would not mind an interruption or two during the call. Any more though, I'd start questioning the role of the caregiver.
I work from home with a great team. I had my son jump into two calls. Both times he was completely naked and had just ran away from his mother after a bath. Both times I was greeted with fun and interaction from the team. When I apologised after about the interruption, I got a private message from the CEO to never even think about it. They are happy he was on the call for a few minutes and everyone interacted with him.
I guess it depends on the team/clients, but my kid comes first, 110% of the times. I don't care. I do good work, if a 5-10 minute interruption on a call because my kid wanted to say 'hi' to the people in the computer is enough to piss people off, I won't work with them.
>>Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying?
The fact some people think like that is what dismays me with the corporate world, I'm glad I got out and I'm never going back. Thanks for reminding me.
It doesn't seem that uncommon for companies to recognize the importance of families, although perhaps it's more common in those with more older employees.
I've had my infant on video calls and he mostly wanted to see all the people. And I've had to turn off my camera to change diapers before. But everyone's been cool with it. Clients seem to like seeing him.
On the flip side, I've been on calls with people whose toddlers were running around their home office screaming, and that's not cool.
I work in a professional team, and one of the things that makes us even more professional is when we all get our kids together for a gathering, and let our kids inter-mingle. It has helped us become less of a group of cold-hearted single-minded professionals and more of a coherent, self-interested group with aligned survival potential.
Having kids sometimes come over while we work is pretty cool. They ask questions about what we're doing at times and we have to ELI5, it's great practice.
My desk has a number of puzzles and they have a ton of fun playing with it. Sometimes they draw on the whiteboard or write a quote.
A++, would definitely recommend bringing kids a couple of times a year.
I've found it really breaks the ice between colleagues .. especially when our kids make friends/make drama independently from the office politics - it somehow unites us. :)
Of course it helps to work in a company producing things that might be actually interesting to kids in the first place. If all you're doing web-blah, ymmv..
I had a video call interview recently and my interviewer was being attacked by his new puppy during the call. Although distracting it made me want to work there.
The comparison between kids & pets is amusing. So many workplaces are pet-friendly (despite people having allergies or phobias) but try bringing your toddler to the office.
Oh, there is no freaking comparison. Pets won't swipe stuff off your desk, practice their infinite regression of "why" on you, yank your pony tail, hand you stuff they swiped from another desk, knock over your empty-soda-can pyramid, try to eat a nerf dart, or demand your attention so they can explain to you how they are super-special and going to heaven because Jesus loves them.
No, I am not kidding or making up any of the above, though it wasn't all the same kid, nor all the same day (or even the same workplace), and admittedly I have no phobias or allergies.
Ok... there's a pretty huge difference between a puppy and a toddler. A toddler is a lot smarter, and a LOT more disruptive than any puppy (not to say puppies aren't, but they don't have two hands either).
Depends on the kid. I could easily have mine on at 3 as long as I put something out to entertain him. You wouldn't know that he's there.
What it comes down to is a trade-off. If you want me working on the off hours and working 50+ hours a week, or working on days I'd otherwise take as a sick day, I get to bring my kids to calls.
I even took my older son, 4 years old, to a two hour meeting because my baby sitter called in sick. I just packed toys for him and told him that I needed to work and he accepted that. It worked out fine for one hour and 45 minutes.
Unless your company is directly contributing to clinical immortality, children are always a priority for long-term development. That's where all the future owners, managers, employees, and customers come from.
Once a kid knows how to behave appropriately in public, any exposure to their parents' jobs also teaches them how to behave appropriately at the workplace, and what to expect after leaving school. If you don't accept this at your own workplace, you are pushing that burden onto someone else's workplace, or accepting by default any cultural shift that may occur in future workplaces.
As I would not expose my own kids to a workplace environment that I did not find to be minimally acceptable, seeing kids around is to me a sign of a healthy work environment. Not seeing them is a red flag, but it could just be because your workplace does not allow visitors.
This is the same principle that causes me to lower my opinion of employers that do not hire people with zero experience. You are simultaneously pushing the burden of assimilation and training onto other people, stunting the development of the people you do hire--as they are denied mentorship and leadership opportunities--and passively accepting that you have a much reduced role in shaping the future of the industry.
You are not alone. I find this disrespectful and very irritating. Probably depends on the tempo of your workplace. I am dodging meetings all day long, and when I join one I expect everyone to be prepared and fully focused
Yes, the way I wrote that made it look bad. But I get 5 invitations per work day on average. In Outlook I have the option to Accept, Decline or set as Tentative. If I click Accept on 5 meeting invitations in a work day I will not be able to write a single line of code. So 3 out of 5 meetings I Decline with a message describing why. And yes, my organisation is obsessed with meetings, we are working on that
It might be unprofessional, but I'd laugh and roll with it even as someone without kids. Especially for internal calls within your team, probably not a bad thing to do - you want to have a fairly relaxed relationship with them generally, so this kind of stuff is expected and perfectly fine as long as it doesn't get in the way of work too much.
With clients, I can definitely see it being a bigger problem.
Maybe this is just evidence that a lot of people I work with just aren't developers because they love development that much - they like it enough and it pays enough to get the things they want in the rest of their time and there's nothing wrong with that.
> OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying?
Probably not, but I usually don't mind. For that matter, the gloss of "professionalism" is highly overrated (I'll take empathy plus moral, ethical, and responsible conduct over "it's just business" type "professionalism" any day of the week).
Of course, it does depend on the behavior of the kid in question. I would expect a parent whose kid is disrupting the meeting to excuse themselves, or at least mute the mike on their end. That goes double for pets.
I occasionally have my 1 year old with me on calls. Besides the occasional burbling, the only issue is that she occasionally farts or burps and then cackles loudly to herself. I wouldn't have her with me on large calls, generally only on 1-on-1 calls.
I think this really depends on the context. Some teams may find it unprofessional, but others don't. Someone on my team has a baby and we all enjoy seeing her in meetings. It's not a constant thing so it doesn't get annoying. It's just nice and if anything, brings the team closer together.
I work at a consulting firm. On internal calls, it's usually totally fine generally speaking, but perhaps a different matter if it is a client call.
Frankly given the hours people work, I respect that they're taking time to be with their kids and trying to find some balance in between the insane hours we work.
I've worked on distributed teams where kids pop into conference calls to say hi. It actually does some good when everyone is getting pissed about some shitstorm or another. If a kid (or kitten) pops on the screen, everyone calms down and the shitstorm magically evaporates.
"Professional" is subjective depending on your workplace. Jeans and a t-shirt is "unprofessional" if your profession is banking. Fortunately, developers these days have the luxury of choosing a workplace where the standards of professionalism suit them.
My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my clients are also quite prone to tantrums. Combining the two seems like a recipe for disaster!